Session Start: Tue Sep 15 11:44:56 1998 *** Now talking in #onenation *** Topic is 'Heather Hill on at 12:00 Noon' *** Set by Max on Tue Sep 15 08:11:39 What did you do? *** Heather_Hill (hhill@ts1503.powerup.com.au) has joined #onenation Hi Phil I was hoping to gather some information with regards the application of the family Law Court, I am particlalry interested in peoples views on access, maintainance, property settlement and treatment in front of the FLC. *** Ian (batcheli@vp126.aph.gov.au) has joined #onenation for a start, I think it is s121 that needs looking at. It is effective in preventing scrutiny of the decisions FC judges are making *** Ant has quit IRC (Connection reset by peer) Phil, have you any experiences with this particular legislation *** Ant (gecko@host) has joined #onenation Sorry, bombed no, only on a personal level - I went through FC 4 months ago to attempt joint custody of my 6yo I felt powerless against the system What is it the courts have against joint custody? I cant even comprehend this judges reasoning - disruptive to the child was his only reasoning Don't the courts Know that psychological damage is possible between the ages of 1---7in a childs upbringing? When ONE Nation releases its policy I think it might have a rather significant impact between the age od 1 too 7 a child needs the role models of a good mother and father. Research has indicated that in the USA 70% of all youth in the Institutions have come from fatherless families It is a very emotive issue seathing within so many *** David_RAUCHLE (jacko@kmidc67-66.ecopost.com.au) has joined #onenation *** David_RAUCHLE is now known as dave Hi Dave The science observations through the field of Psychology has proven this age to be significant in a balanced developement od a childs psychology. Phil if you could change three things wihtin the FLAct what would they be? I saw those figures also Heather, something needs to be done to take away the financial incentive for many mothers to dump their childrens dads hello Heather: I saw a suggestion on Scott's WebBoard the other day. It suggested that if one parent wanted custody, and they also wanted no maintenance, they should be granted custody To change the FC's view that the mother is best, I first belive you are going to have to convince society that single parenthood is not a viable solution. There seems to be a view that a single parent arangement is acceptable, when in fact it is a very poor second to a two parent family situation hello everybody What do you think woud be a fair maintenance schedule, should it be a fixed income, or based on salary Well from a friends experience the problem should be resolved at the beginning by at least compulsary talking to both parties (male and female) before any CSA monies are handed out! *** BabaKoala has quit IRC (Ping Timeout) Ann, I agree that the premise that a female is always the best care giver is a bit antiquated. graeme, that thought alines with ONE Nations thoughts, do you think assistance in the early days could prevent marriage breakdowns. 1. Joint custody as the norm 2. Open up the FC to public scrutiny (remove s121) 3. Forced councelling of both parties before either is allowed any welfare payments Yes and no, but it would stop a lot and councelling is the first step in a communication breakdown! *** Donald_Fenwick (Ryder@rap-01-246.nv.iinet.net.au) has joined #onenation *** Donald_Fenwick is now known as Don Philip you have some good thoughts there. Phillip: Open to public scrutiny yes..but only the courts actions and regulations..I don't belive that any details about a private individuals marital strife should be viewed by the public Its just a start Heather - the adversarial FC system needs to be stopped Ann - like immigration with refugees, the courts can xxxxxxxx out the names Heather's taking notes - Scott B Right Ian What about the maintenance schedule, what do you think would be fair or is the current system fair. It needs to be at least based on After tax (take-home) pay! I think that greater access to information would be a good idea - email etc. The FCA site has only general info at the moment and phone queries usually get you nowhere. I can tell you what though..I don't envy any FC judge....these issues of custody are difficult and so monumentally important..I think it takes alot of curage to deal with making those decisions The current system is fair, if you want to lead the life of a non-working female parent *** Philip_Morton has quit IRC (Connection reset by peer) Heather the facts are, it is tottally out of wack that the family law courts say they are for the best interest for the children when we know that this is a complete lie, why are only 2% of custodial parents Male are the other 98% not cabable parents I like your one liner Ian How often are females hit up for maintenance payments? :) yes, the Male partener is considered guilty until proven incapable of caring, in most cases Ann, I read somewhere that custody was given to men about %4 of the time *** Philip_Morton (phil01@eliz005.gist.com.au) has joined #onenation wb Phil sorry - lost you all What do you believe would be a fair formulea for maintenance payments - the same formulea nett tax? Ian, but do the mothers pay maintenance? Not in 96% of cases I would agree that net tax would be a more fair solution It needs to take into account all monies from both sides! especially if the custodial parent remarries and there spouse is a multimillionare ( they still recieve maintenance at moment) I have read and like Colenes proposals on CS Ther are some very relevant letters posted in the forum I hope you see Heather What do you think about a fixed amount of maintenance or % ratio of salary. Don I have read some of the letters and they are excellent. Agree - the maintainence should end if the other spouse enters a defacto relationship or remarries - then the estranged partener should have access and a voluntary option of contributing I think alot of the problem stems from the expectation that the NCP needs to contribute to things like housing. The CP will still need housing, but claims a xyz bedroom house is required. If she was to live as a NCP she would still require at least a 1 bedroom place. The NCP seems to have to pay for this component also There also needs to be a bit more power on the courts to force visitation if the court allows! at moment the custodial parent can totally disregard it and no-one does a thing! I think its actually a breach of contract and/or contempt of court, but no court will go down that legal minefield! Grame exactly..but the same applies to mothers who are on a pension. They recive the maintenance as well reguardless of how many defacto relationships they big into the childs life..I really think that if a mother would lose the maintenance when a partner was brough into the household this might stop the constant flow af males...it is very detrimental to children to have such unstable homelife Good points Ann Good thoughts Ann Thanks Grame hmm, real thought provoking Ann. The more I think about it, the more screwed up society seems - at least as far as relationships/family goes There needs to be disincentives to a family splitting up, not the incentives that are given to the inevitable CP (mum) I still think it stems from the ability to just walk out on a relationship (married or defacto) and then go down to welfare and claim single parent allowance. There need to be more checks and ballances in system! After reseaching this issue of FLC and Child Support I am feeling somewhat the same way Ian and wonder why nothing has been done for soooo long. Well Ian...if a child has noi stablity as a child...how are they going to know how to have stability when they raise thier own children It is an industry in itself Heather, and will do all it can to protect itself (FCA/CSA) The whole thing has been a political mine field that no politician wants to have a bar off There not going to know ann, and we will be seing this very shortly! (5-10yrs at least) Heather the facts are, it is tottally out of wack that the family law courts say they are for the best interest for the children when we know that this is a complete lie, why are only 2% of custodial parents Male are the other 98% not cabable parents Heather: The reason no one has done much is that it's looks too hard.......there are alot of NCP and CP voters out there! *** Allan_Kelly (hawk@ppp1j.microtronics.com.au) has joined #onenation Grame: in the US they are already seeing the effects of the 70's me generation divorce rates *** Allan_Kelly is now known as BabaKoala get this right heather and One nation will atract 500.000 instant votes *** DJP (DJP@dialup-ad-14-34.uni.camtech.net.au) has joined #onenation Paulines Office has been inundated with FLC issues from throughout Australia and I am sure other pollies are equally aware the system is a failure. I remember a friend of mine and his defacto (they have one daughter) seperated and he went directly to the local majistrate instead of FLC. The FLC went nutsoid , especially when the local majistrate told them where to stick it! the whole case was settled by Local Court and was very amiicable! *** Shon has quit IRC (Connection reset by peer) Property settlements - what would be good solutions to this current issue following separation. Note to self: buy new keyboard - this one can't spell Oh criteria for settlements. Legalities. ic brb Heather, I have a slightly different question for you re the way the FC relates to Immigration - would that be off topic? Property is the hariest one, and hardest to look at. even judges and lawyers can not agree on anything. and all cases are different (good mony spinner for legal profession but not for the poor people who have to use them) Social problems have not been adressed for years by the major parties...and look what you get social decay...as I agree that economic issues are very important...its time someone stopped at looked at what $$$ being valued over people has done Ant what is your question. cheerio all its off to work i go property settlements are the means to double dip for CP's bye greg! got to go guys see ayr later somethng wrong with my puter who keeps the statistics of this situation. The relationship model related to divorce?? I suggest the Australian Institute of Family Studies 50% of everything doesn't always work...its is especailly aventagous to those who have nevr worked to earn the property..however maybe a more effective solution is to assign the property to the children...what will the children need in life most..and thus the parent with the majority of custody should recive the property *** Greg_Wiszniewski has quit IRC (QUIT: ) I was married to a woman from the UK (sponsored her entry), she used me as an entry visa and we seperated after 3 months. She used the "domestic Violence" loophole in order to avoid deportation, and the FC has also colluded in that it allowed the hearing date to be put back to after 2yrs of marriage - Is there any plan to make this impossible? ok aust institute of family studies. There would be a good starting point. the aust int of family studies is like the ABS, only shows what they want you to see! and is 2-4yrs out of date anyway! Ann: If you give the property to whoever has the kids, then what happens if the kids aren't all with the same parent? *** dave has quit IRC (QUIT: ) Ant I as not awareof tis type of situation but will bring it to the attention of the policy developers for ONE nation. Thanks Heather :-) I have also seen some excellent statistics from the Lone fathers Assoc in Victoria, they have found many statistics on divorce and the ramifications to society. DJP: perhaps it is the parent who can sutain the property with government assitance that should recive it..and who would seperate siblings..that would be a horrible judgement Yeah a major one being suicide rate amongst NCP's with=without This is the root of the majority of separations. The CP's knowledge that SHE/he will end up with about 70%. An incentive to split for the most spurious of reasons in many cases Have all that, your independence and welfare. *** Danny_Hayes (dantan@dc43ppp.trump.net.au) has joined #onenation What do you believe would be apropriate access rights for NCP - currently averages at 80 days per year. and then fall back on CSA *** Danny_Hayes is now known as dan Lone Fathers association in Victoria. Theres another valuable source of verification, information and support. Just hope that this package is better received than EasyTax was :) lol Is NCP the parent who doesn't have custody? I am on a disability pension and get 150 days. Its not the point though - my rights to input in my kids day to day life has been ripped from me NCP=Non Custodial parent Contrary to media and big business condemnation the Easy Tax does have merit and should be thoroughly investigated. it is interesting that a number of partners from some Accounting firms have given it the thumbs up but will not go public. Ok lets get back to Family (no Easy tax till later) Phil, do you have any input into school, recreation or health decisions and if not why not. Easy come, easy go :) I would think that the access rights would have to be worked out via the particulars related to each case. Quality family time being stressed. The most recent information related to a positive outcome followed. heather: having children is about sacrifice..I think that when the parents divorce and neither is found to be an abuser, both should have daily access to the children..this mean the divorced parents would have to live relitivly near each other..I think that any NCP who takes up that challenge should be able to see the children at any time...now this doesn't account for overnight visits..but perhaps this can be arrange on an individual basis..but heck if the every day..they should be allowed Long term only, legally, but if my ex chooses to do whatever she wants to do, my chances of getting it overturned in the FC are close to zero *** dan has quit IRC (QUIT: ) Ann I do agree with you. *** Danny_Hayes (dantan@dc43ppp.trump.net.au) has joined #onenation Every day doesn't tend to be practical though *** Danny_Hayes is now known as danny Ann: What if we divorced. Would you stay in Aus or move back to the US? Ian: Australia * BabaKoala stresses the importance of psychological support between the ages of 1 too 7 years. Child ages. I think the needs of the chld are paramount and what do they consider to be home, DJP DJP: having kids means constant support and around the clock care..both parents have to make that commitment..divorced or not Many people have criticised the NO Fault Divorce legislation - what are your thoughts. Ann - this is why I live my life on periodic leases - to ensure wherever my child might be taken I can follow. In one respect thank god a severe disability and the pension has given me this freedom NO Fault divorce???????? I wish divorced parents would stop using there children as weapons against each other. I was actually in that position a while ago, where my parents were separated, and I found that it just didn't work to have daily visits. What ended up happening was that I'd spend every second weekend and half the holidays with the parent I didn't live with No fault divorce still penalised the NCP Phillip: I commend you for your persitance and your involvement..more parents should take that attitude all I can say is that the family law needs to be adjusted for all people invol... It's hard not to penalise the NCP it need more funding put into medation... NO Fault Divorce means that a seperation of twelve months only can permit divorce. DJP: What if you were to say to the NCP - you only pay that proportion of you income equal to the proportion that you have custody or visits? I have got to leave here by 1pm That's an idea, but that would be hard to calculate Have to run people - back later. Congrats Heather, there should be more of this sort of open discussion and participation - Your initative is commendabe :-) That would compensate for not seeing the kids well if that was the case.. I woudnt have any fees due] Scott will be putting up the Family law Court and Child Support Services policy for ONE Nation on Thursday at 10am. If the fault factor came back into it - our countries lawyers would be on a feeding frenzy - no way Thankyou heather for attending this chat forum :o) Senator Hill - It has a nice ring to it :) Thanks for your input and one liners DJP: my parents are divorced as well..I never saw my mother..I now have a very estranged realationship..I wish my mother had taken the effort to visit me once a day...or even a phone call..but you can't hide behind the fact that you're divorced so you don't have to see your kids (unless the FLC has made some kind of restraints) * BabaKoala gives Heather a virtual bunch of flowers :o) You cheeseball BabaKoala :) lol Baba ?me waving lol graeme if you could emal scott the file and please carry on talking I will look at it before thursday. * Ant waving thanks for talking with us heather It's only 12:47 :) DJP : Heather deserves this and more...yes I like a cheeseball or too :o) *** Ant (gecko@host) has left #onenation I am not going yet. Yep, it's good to see MP's and MP-oids on here ann ... your mother most prob.. wanted too but the mental strenth needed to maintain a relationship... whilst your a NCP.. is Bloody hard Any leaks on the Family Law policy, Heather? MP-oids? is that a robot? always though johhnyH was a puppet myself! *** BabaKoala has quit IRC (QUIT: ) MP-oid is someone who's important but not an MP :) like DO *** Peter_Marchant (wheelie@202.9.224.190) has joined #onenation When's the policy going to be released? Danny: its wasn't quite like that...I can see your point...but my mother actually refused to have custody..so its a bit different...my experience is more about parenting not the FLC.. So... heather whats in the policy for NCP Hey Grame, this Internet thing has really taken off with the QLD candidates. When are some canditates from other states/territories getting a go? Please ensure that FCA/CSA matters are put close to the top of issues Heather. It has been pushed under the carpet by the other parties for too long How would I know! most braches don't have access to computers! Does ON have a policy on same-sex couples? (Not that it affects me) :) I wantsome NSW people in here! I think yu will be pleased with the policy, your thoughts have confirmed i am on the right track Grame: maybe members can have local reps come andf use thier computer to get access... heather anything would be better than whats there at moment! Thats an idea ann! So whats the address for your place..lol Looking forward to it on Thursday, Heather so heather... whats so special.. in regards to the policy... what can you say about access/CSA/FLC Hopefully the media will give it a chance, unlike other things :) Ann - You'd have to clean up your magazines from the computer room floor :) I would have no troble letting the ON canidates for the ACT use my interent connection and my puter to use this forum Ian- :P~~~ It is another industry though that will be desperate to protect itself Heather - expect plenty of flak from our thought police lol lol] now now you too no fighting in here, Wow not even married for 1 year and already bickering.. HA HA Danny, I think our policy will grab back some fairness into a system and create some strong criticsm from the feminazi Grame: almost only 40 something days to go :) I think "Current Affairs" should actually pick it up for once, they ahve done some very good segments on the stupidity of CSA etc! yep, the media is bodgy There must be one on ACA producers going through the FLC.. other wise they wouldnt bother you should see some of the behind the scenes things at the CSA - leaving files in tea rooms/cafaterias etc. They're not employed because of ability but more on belief I will contact A Current Affair and hope to get the message on the airwaves - hope to hear from you as callers in that media. If it's going to be on TV, post a message, so I don't miss it :) actually why don't we get someone else who "leaks" it to ACA , they might do it better then! HA AH What do you guys/ girls think of the Qld MP's using this chat line on a weekly basis. lol @ Grame sounds cool to me That would be groovy Fantastic!!!! But get some more canidates from around Australia on it too Its a good idea Heather, Vanessa had fun last wed night! though 12noon is not right time for it! just during the election or afterwards also ? I think later in the day is better though I would have missed today if I wasn't on a RDO great idea I think the MP's should be on here before, during and after an election. See ya Later, Thanks for the chat. by heather! *** DJP is now known as Daniel_Piechnick Bye Heather bye heather Seeya heather :) bye heather CU H Bye Heather - Best wishes Hope to see you or someone else here soon :) thank you once again The policy will be available from : http://www.gwb.com.au/onenation/policy.html on Thursday am (Scott B) well if that was the disc... well we had *** Heather_Hill has quit IRC (QUIT: ) --------------------------------logging end---------------------------------------